HTC is losing confidence, ditches forecasts as losses mount

by: Rob TriggsOctober 30, 2015
1.2K

htc one a9 review aa (8 of 29)

LG, Samsung and Sony have all recently opened up their books for Q3 2015, revealing that the big names in the Android mobile market are all struggling to shift high-end smartphones this year. HTC’s latest financial statement is perhaps the worst of the lot, as the company has posted yet another notable quarterly loss.

HTC has again seen a large decline in its revenue, falling from NT$33 billion (£1 billion) in Q2 to NT$21.4 billion ($660 million) in Q3. Q3 revenue in 2015 is roughly half the amount that HTC managed to generate at the same point last year. As a result, the company’s operating margin has fallen from -15.6 percent to -23.1 percent over the past quarter.

The company’s operating loss has remained more consistent from the previous quarter, improving ever so slightly from NT$5.1 billion ($157 million) to NT$4.9 billion ($151 million). However, HTC was just about breaking even at this point last year. The graphs below sum up the bleak looking situation rather handily.

HTC Revenue and Profit Q3 2015

If the figures aren’t damning enough, HTC has also stopped publishing guidance on its future performance. In other words, HTC is no longer offering insight into how much profit or loss the company expects to make in the next quarter.

HTC clearly has some idea about how much money it expects to make or lose, so we can only assume that such figures wouldn’t make for pretty reading. HTC is likely to have abandoned publishing these figures out of fear for missing them, which is typically met with a swift blow to stock prices as investors sell up. Company valuation issues have hurt HTC a few times in the past, having seen the company dropped from the TWSE 50 Index and even leaving the brand worthless at one point.

HTC phones this year:

The company still has plenty of cash reserved to keep it in business, but successive quarterly losses are clearly showing their strain. HTC appears to have adjusted its mobile strategy lately, as shown by its growing selection of spin-off devices and the launch of the more unique HTC One A9. The next quarter’s financial results will give us some insight into how much impact this device will have had on HTC going into 2016, which could be a decisive year.

  • catapult

    It’s so sad to read these, i feel almost as sad as when Nokia was on its death bed, god bless Htc, Sony and lg

    • Kenrick Fernandes

      i’d also like to add to this. i feel bad, just as bad as you. lesser the competition the sadder the innovation and story.

      • catapult

        In its bad days earlier, when I heard Htc will make the nexus tablet, I was pretty delighted, thinking dat being nexus device, it will sell incredibly well, and Htc will be back in game from ruins, but instead it somehow managed to screw up dat golden opportunity, its a shame, and now see, Google had to make its own

        • Yan Qin

          HTC pretty much screwed themselves since M7 although it was a killer on paper when they announced it, that was their best chance. Nexus 9, not so much, since the whole tablet market is shrinking.

          • catapult

            I will like to disagree here, m7 was the best they ever did, it was “the answer” of the Android ecosystem to apple iphones, that was the the product which brought Htc to the present decade’s global radar, then came m8 which was not bad, and finally m9, the m7 and m8 were so good that even apple took out a page of the design language, moreover during that time, Htc made quite some progress with the midrange desire family, I myself use an Htc desire 816, all because I couldn’t afford a flagship Htc product but I liked them very much, it all began with the very m7 and ended up with m9

          • neo905

            The lead Designer of the M7 leaving was the beginning of the end. Pure rehash since he left and them circling the drain with a lack of vision and execution and arrogance right from the top down.

          • catapult

            Absolutely agree bro

    • NamelessStar

      i would feel bad, but when you see a company doing stupid shit over and over again rather than fixing to make the products they should i stopped caring. a9 was the worst device they have ever tried to do as a iphone replacement ever and that cost… smh…. they got complacent after the m7 and m8 did well.

    • Peter

      It’s sad that we don’t see the real reason. Android kills companies. There is NO profit in Android. Most phone are sold at a loss, and profits from apps go to Google. They don’t share them with hardware manufacturer. It’s just a matter of time when all big brands of old time simply stop making phones and we will be left with iPhone, sponsored Nexus and cheap Chinese crap.

      • saksham

        whats the fault of android if a company makes cheap shit
        samsung will be in our lives forever

  • Kenrick Fernandes

    i’m not saying the A9 was bad. all the banter about who copied whom didn’t bother me either. the a9 had the look, a decent processor, finally a good camera but a horrible horrible horrible battery that has put one too many off. i could have probably lived with that, but then don’t even start me with the price. i know htc can come back and they should have but..

    atleast one plus listened to some feedback and managed to put a good phone with the one plus x. (Atleast in the 250$/20000 rs category)

    • catapult

      The bad thing is that no one would even acquire Htc, we have seen how even the richest and and most powerful tech giants Google and Microsoft couldn’t particularly do very well with buying legendary phone companies Motorola and Nokia, Htc is far from those, same with Sony, I just read its phone division had 1.58b USD in losses, dats huge man, lg is in losses too, samsung profits are declining too, I don’t get it at all, with 80 to 90% of market share, whose the one reaping profits??? While Apple’s bank accounts might need to be upgraded to 128bit systems to keep track of the massive amount of dollars its gaining, dats ironical

      • neo905

        Samsung’s profits aren’t declining actually. Their Q3 report was actually good. Only Apple and Samsung are making profits in their mobile divisions.

        • Leonard Gallion

          Well I don’t know if you would consider it too good, in their mobile division they made 2.40 trillion won in 2015 (an improvement from 1.75 trillion in 2014) but it was 6.28 trillion won in 2013. As a company they did really well, but that was almost all from their component division which is making parts for other manufacturers (like Apple).

          A large part of the general improvement was shipping more lower cost, lower margin phones. At least they are adjusting to the new market dynamic somewhat. The entire Android phone market has shifted downwards in price (but upwards in capability for that price) and tiny players like ASUS are selling cheap mid-rangers ($200 to $350) and are making some money there.

          • neo905

            Actually they specifically said the Note 5 and Edge + contributed meaningfully to their numbers and those are high end phones. 2013 is over. Guess what, even apple isn’t going to grow at 30-50% next qtr. like they have in the past and are forecasting flat to 4% growth. It’s a saturated, mature market that is commoditized. Everyone will eventually need to offer more for less and only show incremental improvements in earnings.

          • Leonard Gallion

            Good point, I am sure those two phones will give them a boost next quarter too. Samsung is definitely in the best position to weather this storm but it looks like the historical 2nd, 3rd & 4th place Android sales contestants may change even more in names over the next couple of years. It will be interesting time, that is for sure.

          • neo905

            Samsung has great components. Even Apple begrudgingly has to use them because of the quality and quantity they produce. Their SOC and panels are outstanding. Their software isn’t. Getting back to HTC it is the opposite. Their software runs smooth from day one to forever but they aren’t diversified enough to weather the storm like Samsung. Vive could be a silver bullet but will they be around long enough to see it blossom?

          • Leonard Gallion

            Yes Samsung component division means that they will have a piece of smartphone sales, no matter who sells them. A lot of people forget they are actually a collection of mostly independent companies that sell a huge range of consumer and commercial products. That diversity gives them a big advantage in up & down markets.

            HTC does have good software & build quality reputation and the Vive certainly could be a big player, however I still would consider them a dark horse in the VR race. HTC Vive & Steam has to rely on the PC platform like Oculus. The issue is if there will be enough ‘VR ready’ PCs out there, in a clear enough market that you can sell to them significant numbers. Microsoft/Sony have a standard hardware platform in their consoles and I think they will sell a lot more lower quality units tied to those platforms. The next gen of platforms may come faster than the last and they may well have ‘VR’ in their names with special hardware for an improved VR experience. All just a guess, but it is hard to sell an expensive add-on when people don’t know immediately if it works on their PC, while a set of VR goggles for XBox One/PS4 doesn’t have that problem.

          • neo905

            Your right. Things don’t look good. I am using an M9 to write this. My next phone won’t be an HTC. It’s s shame really. They had a chance after the M7 and blew it.

          • catapult

            Me too, no more htcs

          • Leonard Gallion

            Yes it is really sad, it isn’t like they make bad phones so the market is dumping them. With the new commodity market place you referred to above, HTC just hasn’t found a way to adapt. I actually think LG is in a similiar boat, there was nothing really wrong with the G4 (no phone is perfect nor for every person) but they lost 60+ million on phone sales (ouch!). It look like direct to consumer sales like Xioami is doing is probably the future (if nothing else you gain back that 30%+ margin of a reseller), but adapting is hard for these companies used to just pushing to the network provider’s retail chains. Who knows, maybe HTC can find a way, at least they have cash in the bank.

          • Diego

            I don’t know man they are going to be using TSMC 100% next year.
            After chipgate apple lost a lot of confidence in samsung.
            I hope that rumor is not true.

          • neo905

            TSMC won’t be able to handle the volume and doesn’t have the capacity.

          • Diego

            They will have to give TSMC most of the orders.

          • Diego

            You need to consider china.
            China is a huge market for phones and with the very hy demand for iPhones, Its hard to believe apple will not continue growing significantly.

          • neo905

            Overall yes. High end growth is already flat this qtr to last qtr. In China for Apple.

        • Joseph Brown

          About the only thing you can say about Samsung is that they made a profit. It was still below their expectations. Apple though met their expectations. Samsung, LG, Motorola and HTC have to realize that they need to streamline their product line. Let the previous year’s products become the bargain products like Apple does. Motorola had begun to move this way under Google but now they’ve started to head back down that “trying to please everyone” path. Apple designs and builds it’s software, but they design and farm out their hardware. Google also understands that hardware can only gain you so much profitability because of the massive amount of cost and overhead involved. That’s why they farm out their hardware.
          Introduce a couple of flagship phones annually and let the previous year’s phones become the bargain phones for those who are truly bargain hunters. Let the lower tier manufacturer’s cater to the cheapskates because you’ll never be able to truly satisfy the cheapskates and you’ll go broke trying.

          • Guest123

            I agree on the cheapskate part. Usually these are the people that complain a lot for the slightest matter.

          • Degus Jacoby Pradana

            Its because the price 1 iphone can make almost $600 profit net dude, even now apple have decline marketshare almost 2% just like samsung cause chinese OEM.

          • jasonlowr

            No, both apple and samsung didn’t quite hit their expected numbers. But yes, they both posted a growth in profit and shipments.

        • Diego

          Samsung is the only one taking 8% of the money thats remaining.

          • jasonlowr

            More like 15%+. samsung grabbed the remaining profit percentage after apple and from losses made by other companies. I’ve read it somewhere.

      • Guest123

        No one wants to acquire HTC YET. They gonna wait till HTC goes cheap then buy them cos they are likely not buying the brand so much as to buying their userbase.

  • Hussein Abdullah

    to be honest HTC is at fault here, they decided to again with the almost same design for the 3 rd in a row with the m9 and while i think the m9 still Looks beautifull many People who used the m8 didnt want an m9 exactly because it is almost the same phone and no upgrade at all, they still had the Chance to come back but gave you an m9+ which was so insanly high priced for basically an m9 with a mediatek helio x10 instead a QSD 810 and also added a Fingerprint Reader, the chinese Mofos from Xiaomi gave you also a FHD phablet with the same soc the x10 for under freaking 200 USD, you cant fight that Price its insane cheap, also they totally screwed their last fans by copy pasting the Iphone with that A9 which is Ok for some People but to me its cheap, Inspiration or not, it s a clear rip off, period. I ve read that the A9 has a snapdragon 620 which would have been awesome BUUUUT they took the weak ass 617 which is basically the 615 just a lil bit more clockspeed (really tiny improvements compared to 615), ok, next issiu, they didnt include their best Feature, the iconic boomsound, ok, still not enough? they give you a ridiculously small battery and want you to pay 500$ for that barely mid range phone, no sane Person would spend that much Money for that crap phone, they dug their own grave and deserve it, RIP HTC

    • M42

      Agreed. Just take a look at the A9 and the missed opportunities with that phone.

    • Sylvester Echols

      Man you said all I was going to say and then some. That’s the truth right there! Just plain obvious of why they are failing as a smartphone provider. It’s so depressing. They use to be my go to smartphone company.

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    • Kanoosh

      +1 , they really dug themselves their own grave here.

    • jasonlowr

      Meanwhile, RIP English.

      • Hussein Abdullah

        I don’t see where i stated, that i am a native speaker, for someone, who was not born in an english speaking country I think my english is more than enough, let me see you how good you speak german. By the way, I don’t even try to write grammatically correct as this is not an english test and i don’t give two shi.ts about it. Again come back when you speak 4 languages like me or shut it

        • jasonlowr

          I speak and write 5 languages and dialects in total, Mandarin, Cantonese, Bahasa Melayu, Hakka and English. Problem?

          • Hussein Abdullah

            You can throw everything besides your english knowledge right into the garbage bin, other than english and maybe mandarin in the future the other languages are practically useless, at least I speak languages, which actually are usefull (german, eng, spanish and arabic) pls go back to your slave work or else your supervisorer will whip you again you shitface, problem?

          • jasonlowr

            Im an Australian working in a mining company, and the primary reason why Im earning big bucks is due to my language ability. We are not only dealing with the Chinese but Indonesians and Hong Kong too. Talks the one who speaks languages that are only spoken in a country out of the entire world. BTW, some regions in China speak Hakka, also, Malaysians speak Bahasa Melayu too. Do you even know what Asia is?

          • Hussein Abdullah

            So basically you’re an australian (english native speaker) who makes fun of my english knowledge skills, what a ridicul. retard you are srsly, the tardness is really strong in you don’t f..ing waste my time amd go back gangbanging with some Kangurus in the outback ffs

          • jasonlowr

            And who tells you english is my native language?

          • Andy

            I would argue that Arabic is useful… German? Yes. Spanish? Sure. But Arabic? Even Russian would be more useful than that…

    • Sergio Arroyo

      I don’t think the design is at fault. Most likely, its because its hard to distinguish their smartphones other than boomsound. Same goes with having little marketing.

      • Hussein Abdullah

        I partly agree Sir but from my pov it’s not good to mimic an IP while being an Android device, I use android exactly because it’s not an Iphone, I dislike apple and their marketing tactics while on the hand can’t deny how f**ing good they actually brainwash people. Sadly 2016 will be pretty hard for Android OEMs, I think the next to gravestones will have “Sony” and maybe just maybe even “LG” on them. I can see that sony will go bankrupt, they make losses since years now and LG had a pretty big loss this year too, the chinese manufacturer are slowly but surely coming amd overtaking, here in Germany at least Huawei is already pretty big and regarded as premium, they make good and even better phones than LG, HTC and Sony for half the price, that fact and apple’s dominance will be the biggest issiu in 2016 imho

  • McHale72

    “See ya. Wouldn’t want to be ya.”

    -every communications device manufacturer in the industry

  • Arman

    Really Sad story, hope they figure out something.. I like HTC even though I have never bought any of their phones.

  • J G

    get your htc memorabilia while you still can lol

  • Marty

    I’ve lost faith in HTC. I’ve always been a strong HTC user and have many of their phones, and was going to buy an A9. But I saw the Basemark scores for it on GSMArena and my heart sunk. The scores, compared to the One M8, were about half.

    HTC should have at a minimum built the A9 with an SD805 SoC, which includes the Adreno 420 GPU. HTC didn’t need to go all out on high-end hardware for the A9, but they did need to make it an upgrade from at least the M8.

    I canceled my A9 order because of the scores.

    • Elegant Young Gentleman

      Yeah…I am going to use my “uh-oh” protection (only good idea from them as of late) and replace my scratched up M8. Then I will be look for a new phone come next year.

    • bartisgod

      The M9/M9e is the equivalent to the M8, though, and it performs as well as you’d expect. The A9 is a successor to the Desire, not the M8. In a $400 phone with a metal body, its benchmarks are pretty impressive, but if you’re in the market for a flagship, it isn’t one.

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  • Diego

    who wants to buy HTC anyone?

    • Degus Jacoby Pradana

      Yea just u

      • Diego

        Not me.
        I mean why wood I?
        Unless I want to be rich I wood not buy it.

  • Josué Gutiérrez

    Only the chinese OEM are making money with Android (Samsung is struggling to maintain their empire so far). Sony, LG, HTC, Motorola (and Blackberry now) are going down… Nokia was right, being an Android OEM is not worth it.

    • Degus Jacoby Pradana

      Samsung struggling but still number 1 in marketshare cuz they provide all target consumers (high,mid, n low end smartphone) n according to AA in Q32015 they achieve big profit, samsung smartphone cant die cause they have huge money, invesment also goverment protected them. LG, sony, htc n blackberry are dying in mobile division , but htc has the worst for all, even blackberry cooperate with samsung now, thats why BB can use edge screen (priv) n samsung use security BB w their KNOX. I hope samsung can bring foldable smartphone n bring new vision of smartphone (just like big screen Note)

  • Guest123

    Just wondering, if HTC would to half the prices of their flagships even though maybe they don’t have as good camera, would anyone still give up buying Samsung or other Android OEM and turn to them?

    • Elegant Young Gentleman

      I would. I like HTC Sense and I like the design language of the “One” line.

  • David Luu

    #HelpHTC https://www.htcdev.com/contact Put everything you want in your next HTC phoness :3

    • Degus Jacoby Pradana

      Lol really? So much desperation

  • Japster21

    HTC needs some serious restructuring, especially internally. First of all, they have to make their prices competitive, because as far as android devices go, they’re one of the expensive ones (at least in my country). Then, they should limit their SKUs to just 3 categories–budget, mid-range, and flagship. Next, they should ditch HTC sense and just use vanilla Android and guarantee customers at least 2 years of timely updates. And last but not the least, they should have better marketing.

  • Andrew Tan

    A company that never listen to consumer will surely dead.

    Now this A9 will guarantee make HTC even worst. HTC already lost and dunno what market actually want or just probably too stubborn.

    If you don’t change to a correct way, don’t listen or see what consumer actually want, you just simply wait R.I.P

    • jasonlowr

      RIP English

  • Elegant Young Gentleman

    Yet they spent how many millions to rent out the expensive Barclay’s Center in Brooklyn for a launch of a phone that looks just like the iPhone that had nobody attend. HTC’s problem is stupid decision makers up top.

  • Degus Jacoby Pradana

    Maybe i must call Marty n Doc n take me to 5 years in the future, i wonder what mobile company will still stand?

  • SamsaraGuru

    About 3 years back when everyone was falling all over themselves saying HTC had produced the most beautiful phone, blah, blah, blah with its mediocre camera I figured and said this was where they would end up. Their leadership then was making fun of how plasticky Samsung’s phones were as well. Well, looks like catering to the “If it glitters it must be gold” crowd didn’t work.

    Next to fall will be Samsung’s useless sealed battery Note 5. Nothing special about it anymore – just a big, albeit prettier, lighter iPhone.

    • jasonlowr

      Wrong, samsung just posted a much better Q3 result. Wrong battery decision? Look at lg, the so-called “perfect” G4 with a removable battery and an sd card slot didnt save them at all. It’s the build quality that the market is looking for for now. Accept it or you can continue to bitch about it.

      • Degus Jacoby Pradana

        He’s name is samsarrGuru but like john snow from game of thrones, he knows nothing

      • tiger

        Better Q3 results BECAUSE it makes chips for iPhone 6s. Otherwise, its mobile business is in decline.

      • SamsaraGuru

        The builders of The Titanic also were proud of their “build quality”, until it literally sank their boat. I am not bitching. I will leave that way of being to you as you are obviously better suited to practice it. I was pointing out a fact.

        Samsung’s current short term solution and success I believe will be ultimately seen as shortsighted. Even now their revenues from upper end phones is falling. Rather than seeking to distinguish themselves as being different than Apple they are playing right into Apple’s hands and turning their phones in just another “me too”, also ran commodity with no exclusivity.

        • bartisgod

          If Samsung were to lose every single penny it put into the mobile business, it wouldn’t matter all that much. They’re a huge multinational Victorian style conglomerate than makes aircraft carriers, jet engines, skyscrapers, washing machines, and everything in between. The carpet in your house and the car parked in your driveway are probably connected to Samsung in some way. They’re the most valuable company in the world, if you add up all of their subsidiaries. They essentially *are* the South Korean economy. The purpose of their mobile business is public exposure to their brand. That they’re actually making a lot of money off of it is great for them, but $6.3 billion is pocket change for Samsung. They can build an entire planned city and have it barely show up as a line item on their earnings report. As long as the Galaxy Phones continue to ensure that everyone knows Samsung’s name, lackluster earnings expectations will be irrelevant, it will have achieved its goal. $480 billion is a *conservative* estimate of Samsung’s size, that is excluding the many subsidiaries they don’t wholly own but still make tons of money on.

          • SamsaraGuru

            Wow. Thank you for all the information.

            And, given that being the case re their actual net worth, I suppose loosing a billion here or there wouldn’t hurt too much.

            But, all things being equal, making and sustaining profits – even when losses in one division won’t ever break you, still has to be their goal.

            It really isn’t of much interest to me should it happen, but I wouldn’t be surprised that see some heads roll at Samsung as a result of the lackluster results of late re the Galaxy lines.

            They have TOTALLY turned me off with their unibody, we’re just as good as Apple design sans micro SD card and non-removable battery, and I really, really wanted the Note 5 and now wouldn’t touch it with a ten foot pole.

            At the very least they could offer a variation of the Note 5 with the aforementioned deleted features. God knows they’re not bashful about having dozens of different models.

    • Degus Jacoby Pradana

      Really? Samsung is Leader of mobile marketshare in the world and u not worry about sony, lg n BB? They are the next nokia

    • Donald D

      “Guise remember that thing I said 3 years ago ? I WAS RIGHT ! ”

      inb4 3 years later when samsung starts falling out of favor “TOLD YOU !” xD

      • SamsaraGuru

        Actually, if you stopped to think about what you say rather than trying to attack what was said because you don’t like what was said, you would realize assuming you even care in actuality, that a prediction can only manifest its relevance and truth over time; and, here on earth 3 years is a very short time indeed for a prediction to be proven right.

        If you were familiar with the approach and attitude of HTC three years ago you would realize that my assessment was and is dead on – something your silly response to it isn’t.

  • Ranjit KR

    Truly Speaking 2015 is a bad year for smartphones industry.All these Companies fail to attract Customers with there Flagship devices due to some or other Issues in there Phones..They fail to address customer Expectations..Specially with Non Removable Battery and Extended Sim Card Slot..Both Android and Apple devices Failed this year..

  • Hilko

    That is usually one of the last steps for a company to take, before filing for chapter 11 not too much later.
    Anyway, with that rediculous price for the A9 in Europe/Netherlands (599 euros, around 700 dollars!!), while actually being 16GB/2GB instead of the 500 dollars for a 3GB version as it was in the USA – I honestly can say: you deserve the sh*t that’s coming to you, HTC.
    I loved HTC ever since my TyTN 2 back in….. 2006 ? But, with the exception of the One / One M8, HTC has become a budget brand, only then without the actual budget prices that should go along with such phones.
    Too bad.
    Good bye HTC.

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  • Nex

    What’s so surprising? No matter how much fanboys want to spin it, HTC is a mere hardware assembler. They sure as hell can’t compete with PRC OEMs doing the exact same thing, use the exact same parts and do everything cheaper with better access to a far larger market across the Taiwanese straits. HTC has NO competitive advantage to speak of.

  • bartisgod

    I hope HTC got nice and drunk this thanksgiving, because at this point it will be their last no matter what they do, short of cutting 90% of employees and making a rapid shift into software and support á la Blackberry.