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T-Mobile G1 possibly unable to support Android Donut (1.6) and Eclair (2.0)

by Michael Oryl on August 18, 2009 8:47 am

Android is sad

According to Jean-Baptiste Queru, a Google software engineer on the Android program, the T-Mobile G1 may not have enough flash RAM to support future versions of Android. Queru commented on the subject via Twitter:

“As much as I’m hoping that it’ll be possible to somehow continue updating the G1, I can’t promise anything. We knew that internal flash space was going to be very tight on the G1 and we kept the system partition tight on purpose.”

The statements were made in response to this post from Android and Me that talks of the limited storage space in the T-Mobile G1.

Update: I changed the title of this post since so many people seem to be unable to read. The question mark was removed from the end of the title, and “possibly” was inserted near the start.

[via JKOnTheRun]

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Comments

Riyaz

I dont think G1 has the horsepower to run advanced features of Eclair – this is not a Flash RAM issue. Whats the point you use up more of the memory and get no feature upgrades?
http://soft.antonspaans.com Anton Spaans

First of all, Donut is not necessarily version 1.6 or 2.0 or any number. Donut is Donut and it’s still in flux.

Secondly, JBQ never said that Donut won’t be delivered to G1 phones. Search on google-groups and you’ll see him repeating this many times.

He merely stated that at some point in the future OTA updates of the OS won’t be able to be delivered to older phones such as G1. Who said that this ‘point in the future’ will be the time that Donut is delivered?
http://andappstore.com/ Al Sutton

Please stop spreading this out-of-context quote of what JBQ said.

The G1 is a T-Mobile device, T-Mobile control what updates it gets.

Google provide T-Mobile with something on which T-Mobile build their firmware.

JBQ works for Google and so *has not control* over what ends up on a G1 and so is *totally* unable to promise anything in realtion to it.
- http://www.mobileburn.com/ Michael Oryl
  
  Al Sutton: this isn’t out of context. I provided the context – the link to the Android and Me post, which is what Queru was responding to. And T-Mobile might indeed control what it offers, but as my old boss used to say: a pint can’t hold a quart. If there is not enough room for future firmware images, then T-Mobile won’t be able to offer them no matter how much it might want to.
http://www.mobileburn.com/ Michael Oryl

Anton: Well, the story doesn’t say that 1.6 or 2.0 won’t be available for the G1. It doesn’t claim that he said that, either. That’s why there is a question mark at the end of the post’s title, and why I wrote “the T-Mobile G1 may not have enough flash RAM” in the post itself.

I then quoted what he said on twitter. If you wish to read more into what I wrote than that, that’s on you.

As to 1.6 not necessarily being Donut, and 2.0 not necessarily being Eclair, Rubin seems to have been telling the lay press otherwise, such as in recent interviews with the Wall Street Journal and Reuters.

WSJ: http://blogs.wsj.com/digits/2009/07/10/android-will-live-on-get-%E2%80%9Csweeter%E2%80%9D-and-more-social/

Reuters: http://www.reuters.com/article/internetNews/idUSTRE56U5XU20090801

While I fully understand that the code names are for development branches and that features therein may or may not ever appear in commercial releases of the OS, it is understood by most everybody that each dev branch will result in a new version of the OS just as Cupcake resulted in 1.5. 1.6 is the next version, which will be based primarily on Donut, and 2.0 will follow that, being based on Eclair. Of course there will be Donut development features that don’t make it in time and end up in Eclair or Flan, or nowhere, but that’s no reason to spit hairs and try to make it seem as if there is no correlation between the code names and the versions of Android. There is a relation, and it is both easier for consumers to remember the code names and it also makes consumers see the platform as being more friendly, which certainly doesn’t hurt its chances for adoption.
bob

This is just more speculation on the part of the blog-o-sphere to drive more traffic to their sites. It’s been debated back and forth and the bottom line is that tmobile/google/google engineers have never said point blank that the g1 is NOT going to get any of the future updates, PERIOD. What they’ve said its going to be difficult and they can’t promise the world, but they are commited to supporting the G1. Do I expect whatever flavor Android 2.0 is to run on my g1 not really. Do i expect to get another minor update and then another major update like they’ve been mentioning all along, why yes.

Frankly I’ve had about 25 android “news” sites on my rss feeds, and its been whittled down to about 10 now since I’m removing any that only offer up speculation after speculation, (i’m looking at you android and me!) So this site android authority might be on the way out in my eyes as well, especially if they using android and me as a source!

clean up your act and report factual news, don’t worry about scoops, and you’ll retain readers, keep offering up speculation and you’ll have an uncrowded room for sure.
- http://www.mobileburn.com/ Michael Oryl
  
  Bob, what, exactly, is inaccurate in my post? As I explained to Anton, I didn’t say that anything would or wouldn’t happen, I merely explained that the limited flash space in the system partition of the G1 might prevent future versions. That is 100% accurate. That is factual news. No cleanup required. If you actually read what I wrote, I posted that Queru was responding, via Twitter, to the Android and Me post. I didn’t use that post as a source, I didn’t say that everything in the post was fact, I merely provided the link for context since Twitter messages are easily taken out of context, and Queru was, indeed, responding to the Android and Me post.
  
  I stand behind what I wrote. It is an accurate representation of the situation, which is Queru responding that the G1 has limited flash space and *might not* be able to support future versions of Android.
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Miguel

Quite frankly I think the G1 is being strained as it is right now. Anyone tried using Google Voice on it? My goodness… the lag is unbelievable at times!
bob

btw people read just fine, however most of the blog-o-sphere needs to look up the definition for the word speculation:

“Reasoning based on inconclusive evidence; conjecture or supposition.”

Which is what all is being done here regarding g1 and updates on all of the speculation “news” sites.

until those “updates” are released and its a FACT that the g1 can’t be updated it flip’n speculation and RUMOR. which is not news and should not be offered up as such.

the blog-o-sphere is just as bad as cable news (oh wait this is where cable news gets its sources now! oh never mind!

and the wall street journal and reuters while somewhat reputable have been shown in the past to get their “facts” just as wrong as everyone else in regards to technology and other things, so I wouldn’t go touting articles from them as “fact” either.

why not offer up more app reviews, tips and tricks articles, etc than just rehashing blatantly inaccurate news from a sister blog site. Make your readers come to your site for articles not conjecture.

that’s why sites like instructibles, lifehacker, are successfull because they offer “content”

any single cell organism can put up a “hack” news site which just pulls in feeds from other places and just mildly comments on them to look like their doing journalism.
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greg

If the problem is RAM, does it mean that HTC Magic (192MB version) Samsung Galaxy would not support future updates? I m a bit confused.
http://www.mobileburn.com/ Michael Oryl

No Greg, we’re talking flash RAM. Built-in storage space where the OS is loaded from. And specifically we’re talking about the system partition of the flash RAM, which is separate from the user available storage space. I don’t know what the size of the system partitions are on the other devices.
Will

The partition used to store the OTA update and flash 1.5 onto a G1 could barely handle the 1.5 update. If 1.6 is any larger at all, it will be impossible to push it and expect the phone to hold it. Believing that 1.6 and 2.0 will be larger — backed by google developer speculation — is logical. The G1 phone in the state it is in today can not handle an update larger than 1.5. Perhaps putting 1.6 on SD card and applying it manually is a viable — albeit consumer unfriendly — option?
Wes

Will this effect the mytouch as well? To the best of my knowledge, its the same hardware inside isn’t? If I’m wrong, enlighten me, I want to know. On a side note, on the news of google branded android phones not receiving the HTC Sense UI (http://www.androidauthority.com/index.php/2009/08/17/htc-to-offer-heros-sense-ui-as-free-upgrade-to-taiwanese-magic-users/) & (http://www.androidcentral.com/htc-sense-coming-htc-magic-not-t-mobile-mytouch-3g), this doesn’t mean other users can’t make “themes” for the market just like blackberry does with their themes right?
stephen

Oh boy… As if I wasn’t already questioning my recent G1 purchase. And I was scared off by the superficial light/cheap feel of the Palm Pre? Maybe I should have just taken the free Treo Pro and waited a while for a better Android device to come around. My concern that Android was asking too much of the G1′s hardware now seems quite valid. Damn.
Lala

Im sure the g1 will get this update! :D
Chris

I am not sure g1 will get this update. But as everyone else, I am hoping. They used the flash RAM because it is faster than any memory storage of the phone. So you will want to load the OS from there. There’s some sacrifices to everything in life. I am guessing that if we, g1 phone users, are short on Flash RAM. They might be able to use some of the SD memory for future updates, but that means for the phone to access those features it will be slower than accessing it from the Flash RAM itself. If we are willing to have a slower phone, then putting it on SD card might be an option. I’m still hoping they find a different solution tho.
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jason

to my knowledge the flashram is enough to hold 1.6, and 2.0. I’m running rooted 1.6 now, and its plenty speedy enoug. may I reccomend DroidSwap for rooted phones? enables a swapspace on sdcard. very effective. massive speed increase. updating via sd card ISN’T that difficult. although, in my eyes – will be the only way to update to future firmwares.

the process is simple, plug in your phone, copy update.zip to sdcard,turn off device, start by holding home+power, select apply update.zip and wait, then reboot – simple enough. :)
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